Thats whats going to happen in the future when someone digs up former NBA players in 100 years! It is a misinterpretation of Scripture to take statements that are hyperbolic and make them literal. In the apocryphal book of Enoch, I think some are given names, but I'm pretty sure Leviathan, Behemoth, and Goliath are not them. The NIV uses the word Nephilim. WebRT @xreamm: Nephilim height chart https://t.co/Cr43cm8kWG. If Goliath was but 4 cubit that would mean david didnt slay the tallest man in the world. I wish you the best. Similarly, Gob is most likely a scribal error for Gath because Gath was Goliaths hometown, and if the text is speaking of Goliaths brother, he would presumably be from Gath also. The Bible does record some apparently healthy giants, but these are not the long-lived pre-Flood people. The most well-known giant is Goliath, whose height is described as "six cubits and a span". (1 Samuel 17:4) This would make him well over nine feet tall . Goliath was known as Goliath of Gath, and the people Gath seem to be a clan of giants. If you check the Hebrew text, Goliath is never referred to as a giant. The concept of Nephilim still leaving among us today comes mostly from the spiritual community. and references from exodus state that the Israelites were as grasshoppers in their sight. 3. We are discussing an argument which is irrelevant because the point here is to who belongs the credit, honor and glory is to GOD. And that would really only be a dog vs man height to a man vs someone that was as tall as a man vs a dog. The MT (from which the reading 99 comes from) has a history that goes back to the BC time period. According to Travis Sanders, many Nephilim look just like us, and they often dont even know what they really are. We should allow the same for ancient peoples and their languages. . Did you ever meet a Nephilim? They are believed to behave strangely, unnaturally and too controlled. Which someone thats 450 tall would be able to see and understand when he looked from his her height to these stone drawings. Semyaza, Shemyaza, Semjaza, Semiaza, Samyaza, Shemhazai. Joshua 11:22 speaks about the conquest of the land, especially focusing on the Anakim (descendants of the Nephilim, see my other related posts here and here). David trusted God not his personal strength or past record in person successes. This mixture of cultures, very normal for border towns, could easily lend to using certain words borrowed from their neighbors language (loanwords as we call them today). Goliath my not have been 30 ft tall but he was definitely the normal size of a man. Leave a comment All the other Philistine giants had Philistine names. 489-508). Just to throw I spanner in the works. Thank you again. Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. One of the points of the story is that Saul was the tallest of Israel and he should have faced Goliath, but he was controlled by fear rather than by faith. 3:1-11). Gen 6:4 is the only reliable reference to Nephilim and it does not provide us a physical description so that we have no reliable biblical physical description of them. 21 refers to Goliath as the rapha which is sometimes translated as giant in English translations. The Samuel text is well-known for having suffered in transmission. The purpose of Gilgal Refaim is still a mystery and the focus of scholarly debate. If he was taller than Wadlow, then he too would have also outgrew his nervous system just as Wadlow did, meaning like Wadlow he wouldnt have been able to walk without a cane. In their insatiable hunger, the monstrous Nephilim eat all of mankind's food, and when the food runs out, about whether cubit sizes changed over the centuries. I appreciate it! Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Im sorry but grasshoppers and 6 or even 9 doesnt compute even as an allegory or hyperboleGrasshoppers to Man and man to people that make Man feel like a grasshopper is a huge ratio. First, as I know you are aware, there are as many explanations for these two passages as there are commentators and commentaries. 5 total brothers as David knew when he killed Goliath that Goliaths brothers would come after him. To give you some comparison the Great Pyramids of Egypt are approximately 449.5 feet tall. Randy. Also what were the Chinese defending against with the Great Wall? God bless, WebMale MC is estimated to be around 5'4. We also know that the Philistines adopted Semitic gods worshipping Dagon as one example. I propose what we should do to put this into perspective, is not consider it a beauty pageant but a spiritual metaphor. We are, however, given his measurements and whether he was 4 or 6 cubits, he was still a big guy. Landa explained that Gilgal Refaim aligns with significant astronomical phenomena. At 6 feet tall, my own span measures 8 3/10 inches. I am willing to bet the evidence for this wont be there. Whichever way our prejudices run, they do not help us get at the truth of Goliaths height. Hays says that a scribe copying the manuscript accidentally looked down at verse 7 and saw the number 6 (as in six hundred) and copied it into verse 4. Look, the human nervous system is only so long, organs are only so big. Please prove your assessment that the average height of the ancient Hebrews were only 5 or so. The Smithsonian Museum would appear to have been the most notorious thief and misappropriated loser of relics and national archives in the history of the world. Regarding 1 Samuel 17, as a number of scholars have pointed out, Goliath is never called a giant in this text. Others, however, raised on the traditional story of David defeating the giant Goliath, would almost consider it a sacrilege to suggest that Goliath might be in the 6 foot range, as opposed to the 9 foot range. Mostly through Patterns of Evidence and a YouTube video I saw when he talked about the need to revise Egyptian chronology. Numbers 13:33 There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.. I therefore believe its possible that later scribes revised based on the 18 inch cubit length that was prevalent at the time of the Masoretes when they updated the numbers to an 18 inch system (widely in use at the time). 1. The explanation you offer also comes with an agenda and that agenda is clearly seen in your sarcasm toward the biblical accounts. However, this sounds more like some of the conspiracy theories you read on the web. I totally agree. Thanks again for writing. Thanks for your question. I would wish for some further elaboration as to how he is so confident of this. Bible Places The Book of Enoch is quite explicit about the fact that the original Nephilim i.e., the ones that appeared prior to the flood were the children of rebellious angels and human women. David was not looking at the height of Goliath, he was looking at the size of his God. Perhaps some items have gone missing. You are, of course, welcome to respond. Also they are hard to be understood, because their body language is different from ours. Thank you for writing. The smaller man is a fighter and isnt intimidated at all by height. You expect us to believe that Goliaths brothers name was a Hebrew name that meant my bread? Neanderthal fossils lack the predominant chin of humans and a last set of molars. They are descendants from Ham. and they can be found all over the world. Og was named in Deuteronomy (3:11) as the only remaining man from the Rephaim. They are present in movies, series, books and comic books. These various measurements of the cubit are only the beginning of the uncertainty regarding Goliaths height, because we also must consider how long a span is. Lets start with Genesis 6:4 in one of the Modern versions, the NIV: Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those daysand also afterwardwhen the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. 1) Such a claim is based on him having been an Anak and the claim that Anakim were descendants of Nephilim. Thank you, Randy. He also cites Matthews volume as his reference. Among these are the belief that the biblical writers did not intentionally distort their history. Though the Rephaim are never mentioned directly in the same breath as the Nephilim, they are directly connected to the Anakim, whom are connected with the Nephilim. Steve Quayle has conducted much research on the topic, and claims the two were cousins, or, shared some sort of blood relation. Thus the Rapha are a semitic people and it would not be unusual for some to use Semitic names even though living among the Philistines. But to date the evidence points to the normal height of individuals being what I stated in the article5-5.3ft. Giant means giant. The name Jaare-Oregim is incorrect and the Oregim has been accidentally copied from the statement of the weavers beam later in the verse. In the original piece of folklore Goliath only needed to be 69. 21:19 has suffered in transmission. Some quick calculations make Goliaths height, according to the MT, to be about 8 feet 9 inches (8.875), and according to 4QSam(a) and the LXX to be about 6 feet 1 inch (6.125). The most important difference is their impressive height. Apparently, Sir Isaac Newton argued that the sacred cubit length of the Egyptians was beteeen 24.90 and 25.02 inches. The Dead Sea Scrolls of this passage along with the Septuagint version (which was used by the early church as their Scripture) both read 4 cubits. Most of the information about them comes from Genesis 6:4: The Nephilim were on the earth in those (Genesis 6:14) More often than not its just easier to shrug our shoulders and move on to the story of Noah and his family. Where does one derive that figure? In this article I am attempting to look at the evidence and decide which reading 4 or 6 cubits, seems to be correct. Its readings are worth considering on a case by case basis. Nephilim, in the Hebrew Bible (the Christian Old Testament ), a group of mysterious beings or people of unusually large size and strength who lived both before and after the Flood. Goliath is the only person in the Bible whose height is given. Calvary Chapel York Billington notes that an 18 inch cubit would mean the person was about 5 feet 8 inches (taller than most Israelites of this period). Im not convinced, however, about his identification of Saul and Labaya. Whether this is a correct translation of the word and whether our idea of giants is the same as the ancient idea are points open for discussion. The skull, which is 23cm long and more than 15cm wide, is substantially larger than a modern humans and has ample room, at 1,420ml, for a modern human The English translations of Genesis 6:4 often read giants. The Hebrew word is Nephilim. The Nephilim were believed to be very large people, hence the translation giants. However this is not what the Hebrew word means, it is a translation of what it might mean. But opting out of some of these cookies may have an effect on your browsing experience. Ive not really studied Chronicles much but my understanding is that it reflects a date in the 400s B.C. Only by examining the evidence, which includes the height of people in the ancient world, the relative lengths of a cubit and span, and the textual evidence for the most reliable reading, will we be be able to come to a conclusion that seems plausible. Until they encounter a trigger that brings clearance. It is clear that 2 Sam. It might be interesting to note that one of Davids men killed as the scriptures say 2 lion of men and a lion in a snow storm then mention the killing of an Egyptian 5 cubits in height. As I mentioned, I am happy for people to express opposing views. 14 Jan 2022 Different times and different cultures often result in a different way of assessing things. In fact, there are many theories that believe that many Nephilim survived and their offspring live among us today. They were principalities in the heavenly realm.. Im just amazed at the amount of research and study youve put in to this. Now imagine if he is the top fighter with the best weapons and armour? This comment from you is egregious. Now, to really see something great go back into time and you will see and know the truth. If someone was say 4 feet taller? Keep up the good work. No I believe he was 9 foot plus as even today we have 8 foot plus people and they are not descendants of Giants just hyperthyroid cases mostly.t. Especially if the people have a past history of being part of that bordering culture. Michael Heiser in his book, The UnSeen Realm, points out that Ogs bed size may actually be a reference to the Babylonian god Marduk whose bed was described by these same dimensions. How were the Egyptian Pyramid stones and other monolith stones moved? People with Giantism average 8.5 feet tall or greater. Randy. One such prehistoric serpentine mound is Serpent Mound in Ohio. However, if we adjust the size of the cubit and span to what would be more likely for an ancient Israelite, then, according to Billing, 16.5 inches would be a reasonable cubit and 7.5 inches would equal a span. 2. Smugly Watching Jan 11, 2021 @ 9:14pm. I assure you this is not an attempt to do away with what the Bible says. I am a believer and see the Bible as Gods inspired Word. Im sure Goliath was massive. In my article I do point out that 2 Sam. I am also taking into consideration the average height of the time and the fact that no large skeletons have yet (and I emphasize yet) been uncovered through archaeology. Such a clean cut scenario does not coincide with reality. I think you see my point. The point is, however, that here is a scholar who is convinced by text form that the Chronicles reading is legit. However, I still believe the external evidence that Hays produces argues for the 4 cubits and a span reading. The writers of the New Testament quoted from it frequently. First, the word Nephilites or Nephilim, which some Bible scholars translate as "giants." Randy, Well as he was a descendant of a Giant race of people surely 6 foot 9 inches would make him a midget ? The human body has no trouble in the 7 foot height area, its only the 8 foot range where it starts struggling, because its reaching its limits. Og King of Bashan is said to have a very large bed. One Final Item to Note. Like a cubit, the length of a span depends on the size of the person. Nyuck, Nyuck as Curly of the Three Stooges would always SAY!! We arent dogmatic and dont hide anything. No the ancient Hebrews are not the same as any of the nationalities I listed. Hays points out the well-known fact that the MT of 1&2 Samuel has a number of scribal errors. Seems plausible to me. It would be like 80 trees or more to feel like that. Regarding whether the name Lahmi (clearly a semitic name) could be used by someone from the city of Gath (see below why I dont say Gob as the MT of 2 Sam. How an a soldier fight if they cant hardly walk? Therefore we have, in almost all current versions of the bible we read today, an inflated height for Goliath. the worlds opinion is irrelevant. If you click on the links in my article you will find the information you are requesting. Saul was a head taller than the other Israelites. I guess thats why David killed him so easily, he fell over without his cane! The Bible Project Thanks for the article it was good reading. kranttu 2 yr. ago. Greetings, brother! The first and most transparent explanation is that divine beings came to earth, assumed human flesh, cohabited with human women, and spawned unusual offspring known as Nephilim. My point in this article is not to come up with the most logical explanation in the sense that I doubt what the Bible teaches. Thanks for your comments. Azazel, Azazyel, Biblical characters did often have more than one name as do monarchs. I agree with you. There is not a few thousand years between the Hebrew text and the LXX. 4. The dittography in the text and the other problems dont change this fact. WebHeight Between 3.5 to 8 meters Locomotion Bipedal - Terrestrial Diet Unclear; Carnivorous practices Lifespan Over 100 years Sapience level Sapient to Semi-Sapient Behavior Extremely aggressive/hostile Language Unknown Reproduction The Elioud, offspring of the nephilim. BTW, the word giants there is a different Hebrew word Rephaim. Michael Heiser in his book The Unseen Realm points out that Ogs bed size does not necessarily refer to his height but may have another meaning which I cant use the space for here. 69 wouldnt be intimidating enough to even warriors who were 53. As one scholar notes, the point of the story may be to show that tall Saul is the right candidate to face Goliath, but he is too fearful. The narrative of Num 13 implies that ten spies concocted a Dont go in the woods! type of scare-tactic, fear-mongering tall tale. Your response is excellent. In fact, I have done a study on giants and found out there are 4 categories. 20:5 is not a late product manufactured to ease the contradiction in 2 Sam. If the LXX was accepted by the early church (and it was! Today someone who is 6 feet or taller is a common occurrence, but remember, most people in the ancient world were nearly 9 inches to 1 foot smaller. We may never know. They are also evil, blood thirsty monsters. Four Theories - Christianity.com How does someone reach the conclusion that the average man was 55? Intentional Ambiguity as Literary Art. This article demonstrates that when we jump too quickly to a conclusion to explain an apparent contradiction, we may well come up with the wrong answer when a better answer is readily available. If one could go back in time by looking at the footprints that are imprinted in the ground you would be able to determine the actual height and weight of some of these prehistoric giants. Since we are only given the height of Goliath (and as this article points out, there are two different recordings of his height), it is not possible to know if he was the tallest or if someone else was taller. Some Giants are as tall as the trees of Lebanon and those trees are described here as 130 tall Cedrus libani, commonly known as the cedar of Lebanon or Lebanon cedar, is a species of cedar native to the mountains of the Eastern Mediterranean basin. The docu-series brings the biblical sources, but it should be interesting for non-religious viewers, Landa said. Please see the comment above. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those It all makes sense that goliath truly was a giant and not just a taller man, Either way thats not the point of the story but fascinating either way. Ask yourself, is it possible that Goliaths parents, being good Philistines and giving Goliath a Philistine name, would give his brother the name Lahmi? We are never given the measurements of any Nephilim (We are told the size of King Ogs bed in Deut. I appreciate your thoughtful response. Therefore, although the story in 1 Samuel 17 may not refer to Goliath as a giant, it seems certain that other passages indicate he was a descendant of the Nephilim. No different than if I said, Its raining cats and dogs. No one would take me literally. The name Jaare-Oregim is incorrect and the Oregim has been accidentally copied from the statement of the weavers beam later in the verse. The fossils indicate they were substantially more muscled, including the children. I am always humbled and grateful for those who help us navigate the stark differences in our world and the world of the Old Covenant.