They started giving me issues after just 50 or so miles and never stopped squawking. Its not exceptionally long or slack. The 2019 Specialized Sequoia Elite. All that said, the complete parts list isnt all bad. The issues I took with this bike were in the parts kit, particularly the crankset. It's gone from having a 2x Shimano drivetrain to now a SRAM Apex 111 drivetrain and hydraulic brakes. . With All-City's sliding Master Dropout, the bike can be readily converted between single speed and geared at your heart's content, but still uses a 12mm thru-axel to secure the wheel. 1 available; If youre stuck out in a remote area of a foreign country, you may have to ship the bike abroad to get repaired. Its a great all-rounder bicycle that can be used as a daily commuter for running errands and taking on long travels, making it one of the most versatile bikepacking bikes. The 2.4 Riddlers, a tire I am quite fond of, ate up the bumps and the frame felt solid, well-balanced, and planted. Buyers can choose between a 700cx50 or a 650bx2.0 tire size, depending on what path lies ahead and get a fork made entirely out of RDO carbon with the option to extra fit bottle cages or racks. Fat Bikes with 4.0-5.0 Tyres. That certainly would have lightened things up a bit. Salsa claims all the carbon versions weigh 75 grams less than their aluminum counterparts. The special edition 10th issue of The Bikepacking Journal is one you wont want to miss! As you know, its a cool feeling.. Tyres Bikepacking vs. Bike Touring: Whats the Real Difference? Drivetrain needs swapping every time riders interchange wheels between 650 and 700, The rest of the components are all proprietary. Or, maybe it was All-Citys lofty promises that the Gorilla Monsoon could do it all in stylefrom gravel slaying to fire-road touring and cross-continent exploration. Retail: $2599 (Apex 1), steel frameset: $1199, titanium frameset: $3299. This includes details like the maximum tyre widths, the climbing gear ratios, the mounting points on the frame and, of course, the bikes weight. Published 28 April 23, Cycling Weekly finds out how the sport in Ukraine has lost stars but continues to inspire and even form part of the war effort, By Chris Marshall-Bell Limited size choices especially for taller riders. Please keep the conversation civil, constructive, and inclusive, or your comment will be removed. coating. | specific epithet list | Juin 21, 2022 | how many points did lebron score annually? The 2.4 tires, in tandem with a comfortable, yet lively geometry, make it a good all-around climber and a capable all-terrain machine. Find out more about how we test. Love them to death but let's be real, $2k gets you more bike from pretty much anyone else 4 Liquidwombat 1 yr. ago Absolutely true. Promoting a mission to "bring beauty back to production bicycles",Minneapolis based All-City Cycles is an in-house brand of US bicycle and component distributor Quality Bicycle Products (QBP). all city gorilla monsoon vs salsa fargo. Gear Range Most riders usually travel with all their belongings and so require a bike with the provision to mount multiple luggage carriers on the saddle, frame, fork, and handlebars. Maybe the fact that All-City tossed out every one of these conventions is what helped them sell out of the Gorilla Monsoon in a matter of days after its release. The oversized 29 rims fit chunky 66mm tires, making it easy to ride on rough and tricky trails while still maintaining grip and traction. Most bikepackers typically run 650B or 700C tires with a width of between 42mm and 50mm, depending on the accommodation of the bike frame. The 11-speed drivetrain is paired with Niners highly versatile biocentric bottom bracket and includes an option to upgrade to an electronic shifter. Light but strong aluminum frame with 26 mount points. Salsa Horsethief Carbon Frame w/Fox Rear Shock Charcoal/Raw. Lacks the full suspension needed on the rough trails the bike is made for. 1996 - 2023 Bikexchange.com: Cycling Guides & Bicycle Reviews. In addition, to match the 2.4 tires, I would have rather seen 29mm internal width rims, instead of the WTB STP i25. It was amazing on the trails. Orbea Oiz M10 TR Available as a frameset for $550, the complete bikes come with All-City's polished crank paired with a 46t ring and 17t cog at the back. With a mix of traditional road and randonneur geometries, Space Horse is the ideal machine for urban exploration. There are more than 190 bikes across six different categories in my Bikepacking Bike Buyers Guide and in this article, Im going to choose the top 2 or 3 best bikepacking bikes, for each genre. MSRP: $2599 to $2649; . Frame Material and Construction 9. 01.07.2022 in hutchison 3g uk limited companies house 0 . However, the Gorilla actually has a slacker head tube angle, higher stack, a slightly lower bottom bracket, and shorter stays than their popular Macho Man, all in effort to offer a bit more off-road rowdiness. Externally mounted cables are easier to access. Hydraulic braking systems require maintenance and technical expertise. A good quality chain, lockable gear, and a tamper-proof alarm system are some of the few ways to ensure safety. Priority added extra eyelets across the frame to cater to a mixed gear setup or up to six bottle cages with one mounted on the seat stay. First, the nitty gritty on the frame. Even so, the Monsoon feels surprisingly fast, yet stable and comfortable, all key ingredients to a good dirt road bikepacking rig. Its running 4.8 wide tyres, a 1X drivetrain and a lightweight frameset. The geometry is well designed to suit bikepacking and trail riding, go fast, and handle rough terrain and long distances. I personally like the orange and yellow tone model. You can run it as a full 29er or use a mixed tire setup while still carrying a heavy load and not compromising ride stability or comfort. Since these bikes are built to go fast over rough terrain, the tires are chunky, offering better grip and traction with extra weight. You can add commuting to this trifecta. The Bikepacking Journal is our biannual printed publication. ), the Cosmic Stallion slots in as All-City's gravel racer. Considering most bikepacking bike builds are over $3,000 and have a bikepackers whole life on board, it is advisable to keep it as secure as possible. TheBikepacking Bike Buyers Guidetakes a close look at the best bikepacking bikes, including their frame features, steering speeds, tyre widths, gear ratios, weights and more. Well, you can, if you get one of the best bikepacking bikes below! All-City Cycles Gorilla Monsoon . The extra damping allows for a comfortable ride in rough terrain and is best enjoyed when charging through remote wilderness packed with all your camping gear. Find details on the three most recent issues below, join the Bikepacking Collective to get it in the mail (anywhere in the world), or click here to find a collection of selected stories in digital format. I am riding more miles and feeling fresh still on this bike. All-City calls the Zig Zag an all-weather endurance roadie bike. Mahdollisuus kytt 27.5+, 29" tai 29 x 2.8" renkaita,ilman lokasuojia. Overall, the maintenance of flat bars is usually easier and cheaper, with less tape changes and fiddly wiring, but at the end of the day, it comes down to personal preference. Disclaimer: Bikexchange is reader-supported. The only issue is that most hybrid bikes are low-quality and not built for purpose, so they might break down more often than custom bikes. All-City Gorilla Monsoon APEX 58cm Charred Berry. Comfort Saddles Salsa Cutthroat The 111 SRAM Apex drivetrain provides decent gearing even when paired with a somewhat entry-level Sunrace cassette. If you need lower gears, the 9-speed Shimano gearing makes it very easy to retrofit a mountain bike derailleur and cassette for tackling even steeper climbs. Marin has opted to use Shimano GRX hydraulic discs on the Headlands 2, which perform well under most conditions but do require some technical expertise to maintain. Salsa Fargo Rondos design team has ensured the bike has enough space for bikepackers to load up on hydration by adding triple cargo cage mounts. Santa Cruz has a reputation for manufacturing high-quality endurance bikes to suit almost every terrain and rider, including some of the best bikepacking bikes on the market. Every bike has a load limit, so if you do plan to bikepack with a carbon frame. The overall bike build should be sturdy, with easily serviceable parts that are interchangeable with other brands. All-City Gorilla Monsoon Frameset Charred Berry. Ultimately I sold it because the riding position was way to upright for me. . According to All-City, the company selects color schemes based on color theory, and draws inspiration from vintage motorcycles, hotrods, classic cycling catalogs, and even ski and snowboard magazines. Buy from Jenson USA Buy from GovVelo.com, Best for fast and lightweight bikepacking trips. The geometry is a cross between a road bike and touring bike, with a compact rear end (440mm chainstays, size 52) and low bottom bracket keeping the handling precise with no luggage, yet remaining stable when weighed down with a week's worth of camping gear. Although easily shod with 700c wheels, 650b x 47s were the favorite, on road or off. YOU THEN HAVE THE TOOLS TO COMPARE BIKEPACKING BIKES: How to Best Use This Guide A good balance of a relaxed fit but still allowing me to get low in the drops when descending or pushing into a headwind. How to Size Up and Compare Bike Sizes The lightweight carbon frameset has multiple mount points across for luggage and gear, making it one of the best touring bikes out there. Its running a Fox fork and shock, and Scotts suspension lockout system which stiffens everything up using a single lever on the bars. You can find out more information about itHERE. Best for Serious, Long-distance Bikepacking. 2. As always, there is a frameset available that is priced at $850. Having no previous experience with FSA direct mounts, what I thought would be an easy switch turned out to be a pain. Start at our worldwide routes map to dig into our detailed guides with GPS maps and inspiring photography. Limited clearance between the frame and tire for fenders. High-performance rims, tires, drivetrain, and brakes combo. The most capable 27.5 gravel bike is the Gorilla Monsoon. They took the Gorilla Monsoon far enough in this direction that at first glance, one might suspect that it came directly from the shop of a one-man framebuilder. When planning a bikepacking trip, its best to have a basic idea of the terrain and gear you will be taking along to narrow down the bike options. The All-City Gorilla Monsoon captured a lot of attention when it was released a few months ago. If mounting points are not available, stick to velcro or tie clips for a temporary fix. Handlebars are one of the three touchpoints on a bike, along with the saddle and pedals. The aluminium frame and full carbon fork help to keep the weight of the bike down at around 13.4kg. Let's analyse 121 different Tour Divide bike setups and find the fastest bikes. 7. In the end, I want one. And thanks to the sub-compact crankset and wide range cassette, the 24climbing gear is as low as it gets in this bike category. Most importantly, the frame must be strong with enough mount points to carry extra luggage, and some form of suspension is recommended if tackling mountainous terrain. alkaen. Bath This simple steel rig is $1200, it has an 18 gear inch climbing gear from the new SRAM SX 1X drivetrain and it will clear 27.5 x 2.8 tyres (26 x 3.0 or 700C x 47mm too). Fargo can do up to some 29x3.0 tires, while the Sutra can not. The Kinetics MTBrompton is a new off-road version of the Brompton folding bike. Coming off the shelves at $899.99, its one of the best bikepacking bikes under $1000 that weve seen. However, the lack of suspension or a dropper seat post means this isnt the ideal bike for serious mountainous bikepacking. The aluminum frame is light, weighing around 10.5kg, and available in 6 sizes between 49cm and 60cm. Theyre also comfortable, with favorable riding positions and accommodation for racks and other bikepacking kit. For two decades, Bikexchange.com has helped people from around the world make informed decisions regarding cycling-related products such as bikes, gear, trailers, bike racks, and so on. Niner has included 26 threaded mounts across the frame to carry additional luggage racks with all cables internally routed, which helps to prevent damage and wear and tear from the elements. WANT TO COMPARE THE BEST BIKEPACKING BIKES? All-City based the Gorilla Monsoons geometry on their current crop of cross bikes. 111 SRAM Apex; 700c & 650b options; . Brakes With a tough Shimano GRX 11-speed drivetrain, youll have no trouble tackling rough backcountry and mountainous terrain. Budget bike good for a first-time bikepacker. A small air bubble or leak can cause a complete failure. 700c x 38 keeps the BB about the same as it is with the 27.5 x 2.4 tires. The aluminum frame is light, weighing around 10.5kg, and available in 6 sizes between 49cm and 60cm. All things considered, I would buy the frameset and build the bike myself. Available in 6 sizes (between 49cm and 60cm), it comes with clearance to fit 650x50mm up to 700x45mm tires. By purchasing the Journeyer Sora 650b, cyclists unlock the exciting world of bikepacking adventure. Braking power from the powerful Hayes Dominio A4 hydraulic brakes is impressive and includes Kevlar-reinforced pipes for extra protection usually only seen on top-range bikes. All-City's most versatile model, the Space Horse is a geared workhorse with fender and rack compatibility for a lightning fast daily commuter or touring bike. 1 available; Fat Bike; Salsa Rangefinder Deore 12 27.5+ LG Dark Red. Dropper Posts par | Juin 21, 2022 | how many points did lebron score annually? 2., All City Monsoon or Soma Wolverine: Let's call them 'monster cross'. Its actually pretty normal in the grand scheme of things, but thats not to say this bike isnt interestingquite the contrary. As much as aluminum is a fairly strong, light, and affordable option, a decent carbon fiber frame could be your best option. Wheels Components This reduces knee strain by bringing the pedals closer together, and it provides extra cornering clearance too. The geometry of the bike is designed to offer a fun and stable ride while the materials used absorb vibrations very well. You also get a dropper seat post for added performance and comfort, a lifetime warranty on the frame, and the DNA the 8th generation Chameleon shares with other models. FSA crankset direct mount is for the birds. Before a frame and fork are sprayed, each piece is prepared in a phosphorus bath to ensure the entire surface is wholly uncontaminated.Then, they dip the metal into a liquid full of suspended paint particles and introduce an electric current that drives the particles to adhere to the metal, creating a uniform thickness for the base coat. all my children' cast members who have died; the social and aesthetic dimensions of a community brainly; grace mcguire husband; banana king food truck menu. The bulk of the weight is in the wheelset and a few other components specced in the complete build. 8. Additionally, there are three cable mounts on the downtube, providing the option of adding a front derailleur or a dropper post. However, given that gravel bikes, and variations on the theme, are in their infancy (relatively speaking), whos to say what the rules really are? Salsa Fargo Frameset Black. The black paint with the green zigzag lines brings life to the build the pattern looks like veins with fluids flowing in them. The high-modulus carbon fiber gives it the extra strength needed to take on the weight of baggage and gear and the frame is guarded for extra protection to prevent fork damage on tough terrains. The only downside is that the Radar Expert is a bit on the porky side its 12.9kg but that was always going to be the case for a bike at this price. Although marketed as a road bike, this powerful steel bike can fit several racks and is perfect for long-distance bikepacking, and will carry you miles around the world. 11. Minneapolis based All-City Cycles is an in-house brand of US bicycle and component distributor Quality Bicycle Products (QBP). The frame is outfitted with Di2 Routing, which guides the shift wires inside the frame; however, should analog gear changes be more your style, the cables, and full-length housing runs outside the tubing to aid with maintenance. Hydraulic braking systems require some level of technical expertise. The fork must also have a considerable amount of travel to tackle treacherous trails and the option to mount extra luggage, including fenders. Even so, theres nothing too out of the ordinary about the Gorilla Monsoons geometry. The generous number of mounting points can be used for mudguards, water bottles, racks, and other gear, while all cables are internally routed and kept out of the way. All-purpose bike fit for bikepacking and daily riding. Thanks in advance for spreading the word! With an FSA Gossamer Sub-Compact crankset shifting between a 48/32t rings, the smallest gear matches that of the Expert (25), but this bike has a better top-end gear ratio of 122. While 29 x 2.6 inch is technically not a plus bike size, its close enough, and the Kona Unit X is such a great value adventure bike. The excessive 3 tire clearance is a clear sign this bike was built for serious adventure, easily able to fit much chunkier tires for those extreme off-road conditions that ambitious bikepackers may encounter. Defeat here removes Sammartino from any further title . Other equipment I didnt like includes the very uncomfortable saddle, long stem, and heavy cockpit components. This steel bike has top tube bag direct mounts, as well as triple cage mounts on both seat stays, on both sides of the downtube, and on both sides of the fork. Important Upgrades This is one of the only drop-bar bikes that can squeeze in 2.4 off-road tyres, and its designed to also happily accommodate some 47mm slicks with full fenders. Never try to make any additional holes to bolt on items as this compromises the structural safety and design of the bike. Thefork is full carbon, including the steerer tube, which is unheard of at this price. State Bicycle Co. 4130 The chain-free and derailleur-free design requires almost no maintenance and includes lightning-fast shifting but takes time to get the hang of. Yes. This beauty features a full Shimano GRX drivetrain with an 11-speed gear setup and hydraulic disc brakes for optimum performance on rough terrain. The externally routed cables are easily accessible for service and replacement and Marin has added multiple mount points all over the bike for gear and luggage. Then, they dip the metal into a liquid full of suspended paint particles and introduce an electric current that drives the particles to adhere to the metal, creating a uniform thickness for the base coat. 40+ Gravel & All Road Bikes with 27.5 Wheels Slows down considerably along hill climbs. The single-speed build ($1,999) comes with TRP RRL Black brake levers, a SRAM Apex crankset with a 40t ring, and an 18t cog at the back. The single-speed version is equipped with the same crank and wheels and an 18t cog on the back and costs $1,299. By using our content you agree to our. Based around All City's 'cross geometry, the Super Professional is a commuter bike that's ready to be raced on the weekend. Given the long frame reach, short stem and slack head angle, the bike will handle technical terrain particularly well. Compatible with 700c(maximum 45mm) and 650b(maximum 51mm) wheels and tires giving riders the freedom to pick according to the terrain type. Main Menu Unfortunately, it comes with disappointing TRP Spyre-C mechanical disc brakes and all cables are externally routed. Review: All-City Gorilla Monsoon 89,176 views May 15, 2018 1.4K Dislike Share Save Path Less Pedaled 135K subscribers Support our independent reviews: https://www.paypal.me/pathlesspedaled. I would say the Sutra is the more road and gravel friendly bike. The front fork has a sufficient 110mm of travel and the 292.25 wheel and tire combo is ideal for tackling mountain trails with a full load. Wide range of sizes to pick from to suit almost every rider. If you already own a full suspension bike and want to use it, we recommend contacting a custom gear builder to cater to your design needs. MSRP: $2,499 Jenson USA. TheSurly Bridge Clubis one of my favourite flat bar bikes. My budget bike of choice is the flat bar Salsa Journeyman Sora. The beautifully smooth and intuitive 11-speed SRAM Apex 1 drivetrain is the clear selling point on this rig, although, at this price level, its to be expected. Its also one of few road bikes these days with externally routed cables, making repairs and upgrades quicker and easier. Actually, scrap that, the single-speed version would be the best bike to start with. 2 available; Gravel; Breezer. Symmetrical design that looks aesthetically pleasing. With 2.4 tires, a bi-plane fork, and a snazzy paint job, we had to test one to find out if its glitz and glamor or the real deal. The green paint on this beast blends in with nature, allowing you to camouflage and be at one with the surrounding especially if you are hitting forest-filled paths. As Aunty Entity said "Welcome to the Thunderdome" in the 1985 Mad Max threequel,it's almost as though she was speaking directly to All-City's UCI approved track racer. It does, however, include a 12-speed drivetrain that can easily navigate challenging hills and SRAM hydraulic disc brakes with heat dispersion qualities that ensure the Chameleon stops quickly at all times. I really like the fade paint job on this bike, along with the twin-plate fork crown and the fact it has mounts forSurly-8 and 24-Pack rando racks. All cables are routed internally with the provision for a seat dropper post an upgrade we highly recommend on every ride. At $2,599.99, the Ruut ST2 is well priced for a bike that features decent frame materials and a high build quality matched with a mix of decent and affordable components. Inspiration . Your bike needs to be ready to take on anything from well-built urban roads to the rugged paths on the Cairo to Cape Town cycling route and survive all the weather conditions along the way. It offers the same SRAM 1X drivetrain and hydraulic disc brakes as many of its rivals, but it often undercuts them on price. This bike has a frame geometry ripe for an alt handlebar conversion such as my KOGA Denham Bars or the Surly Molokos, which will provide both an aerodynamic hand positioning along with the stability of a wide flat bar. There is room for 700x47mm (43mm with fenders) or 650x42mm rubber, and even though this is one of All-City's more performance-oriented frames, this doesn't come at the cost of practicality, and the frame is still outfitted with rack and bag mounts. All-City has gone for a classic Chromoly Steel frame designed in a very simple manner and painted in Charred Red, giving it a retro look. As such, I expected it wouldnt be as confident on descents as the Kona, but I wasnt disappointed. If youd prefer something lighter and faster, check out the Giant Anthem 29 2. Requires more gears for best performance from this bike. You can trust Cycling Weekly. 5. This lightweight gravel bike with a well-designed geometry is whats needed on a light bikepacking trip. The geared build will set you back $1,599 and comes with a Sram Apex 1x 11build with an 11-42t cassette, FSA Omega crankset with a 44t ring, and WTB STi23 hoops. Its running a SRAM NX Eagle drivetrain that provides a 17 climbing gear to take you right up into the mountains, and a stable frame geometry to get you back down. We have over 300 original and curated bikepacking routes in our global network spanning nearly 50 countries. Gravel & All Road Bikes with 27.5 Wheels Disc brakes come in mechanical, which are cheaper and easier to service, or hydraulic, which are more expensive but provide excellent stopping power at the touch of a finger. All cables are sleeved and routed internally with provisions for a dropper post (27.2mm) and a 40mm-travel suspension fork. Your email address will not be published. The Journeyman uses an aluminium frame and carbon fork to keep the weight down to 11.3kg, which is really decent for a bike under a thousand dollars. In their eyes, it is a cross bike. Bicycle Touring . Here is a bike you may not have seen before and it is wild! With an eye-catching paint job, the Big Block is a flat bar fixed gear designed to do battle with the big city, and is based around a track geometry. Throw on a full accoutrement of bags and camping gear and the two extra pounds is just noise. I was a little surprised by how heavy the All-City Gorilla Monsoon felt when unboxing and assembling it. The Salsa Cutthroat is an all-rounder beauty available in a sleek charcoal color to fulfill the needs of an adventurous budget bikepacker. Clearance for massive 2.4 tires afforded by 73mm bottom bracket shell. Between the stays, there is room for a 35mm tire (or 32mm with fenders), and the frame is made from the All-City's ACE steel tubing.While the bike is thoroughly modern, the tig welded construction, brazed seat collar, pump peg offers a retro aesthetic. All-City started using what it calls ACE (ir-hardened, customed extruded steel tubing) to build its performance-oriented bikes in 2016. At just 24 lbs, this is one of the lightest bikepacking bikes youll find. Cable-controlled disc brakes are easier to adjust and service. Even so, I found the descriptor that All-City pinned to the Gorilla Monsoon to be fairly accurate. According to All-City, this tubeset is all about ride quality and durability. With a sliding rear dropout and stainless steel axel pads, the Thunderdome is designed to last, and the 49t chainring and 17t cassette are ready to light up the boards at your local velodrome. Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11spd 27.5 XL Red Fade. It even comes with a 70mm/105mm travel dropper seat post for adventurous riders who like tackling steep terrain. In addition, I ran the venerable Revelate Terrapin seat pack in the back and an old Salsa Minimalist front rack with dry bags up front, alongside the Porcelain Rocket Nigel, for camera carrying duties. The frameset will clear 45mm tyres but that number can stretch to 47mm if you throw in a 650B wheelset. From my experience, the Gorilla Monsoon feels most at home on rough dirt roads and chunky gravel, where the massive 2.4 tires are at home. The geometry is slack and low for extra stability that caters to gravel riding and carrying luggage. The steel frame provides a perfect blend of stiffness and comfort to give you a smooth ride. Kyrtankoinen isorenkainen tersrunkoinen jokapaikanpyr. 53mm tire clearance for bigger and chunkier tires. 20+ Full Suspension Bikes with 2.2-3.0 Tyres Buy from evo.com Buy from Mike's Bikes. And, with a nice blend of classic styling and a modern build features, such as thru-axles, short-ish chainstays, and beefy tires, the Gorilla Monsoon is certainly unique. Off-Road Adventure Bikes with 29 Wheels Our team of experts put in hard miles testing cycling tech and will always share honest, unbiased advice to help you choose. All City Gorilla Monsoon 13.2kg and US $2099 The most capable 27.5 gravel bike is the Gorilla Monsoon. Kona has upped the internal rim width to 25mm on a WTB KOM Light rim (up from 23mm). 21st October 1963 @ New York City, NYSammartino is lined up as the fearsome Monsoon's next challenger. At just 21 gear inches, you should be able to comfortably ride up the steepest road gradients, and given the bike weighs just 9.7kg, it certainly wont hold you back either. Add a dropper seat post and fast-rolling Maxxis Rekon Race tires that perform well in extreme conditions with maximum traction, and you have a solid mountain machine that will take even the most adventurous bikepackers anywhere they want to go. Whats more, this bike performs pretty well on tarmac and is surprisingly playful on smooth singletrack as well. If thats not low enough for you, I suspect the rear derailleur will be able to squeeze in a cassette, with a 40 tooth bailout gear. The Local Overnighters Project is a unified effort to document and map one-night bikepacking routes all over the worldby locals, in their own backyards. Tire choice and specification are not the best. Gravel bikes are highly versatile and diverse. Low-cost bike with parts readily available. While this may sound inviting and adventurous, its not always ideal.